Dating and Sex in China

“Two American men were deported for sleeping with too many girls,” a foreign friend reported to me sometime ago. “They gave a number of girls hope about marriage and traveling to America and the girls willingly gave themselves to the guys.” My friend was a teacher in a small town in Central China were news always traveled fast. She explained that when the girls realized that they had been ‘used’, they complained to the local authorities who promptly arrested the men and sent them out of the country.

While such stories are relatively rare in China, there is little doubt that Chinese women are regularly taken advantage of by a handful of the thousands of foreigners who are living and working in China. Some foreigners arrive in China with the attitude that this country is a ‘playland’ and that taking advantage of Chinese women will have no consequences. Still, there many more foreigners in China who just happen to meet a nice girl that they are truly interested in. Thus, the million dollar question presents itself. Is it a good idea for foreigners to date Chinese women?

The simple answer to this question is ‘yes.’ But wait. don’t close this page quite yet. There are a few tips that you should have in your mind before you step into the Chinese dating scene.

  • –Be honest with your girflfriend about your intentions. If you are only going to be living in China temporarily, make sure that she understand this. Do not lead her on by giving her false hope for the future. Doing this could cause trouble for you later on.
  • –PDA (Public Display of Affection) is still highly frowned upon in many parts of China. Kissing and even holding hands in public is considered improper by the older generation.
  • –Going to visit your girlfriend’s hometown is often seen as a serious step towards marriage in China. If you are invited to visit your girlfriends’ hometown during a holiday, be careful. Accepting the invitation may send the wrong message to her and her family.
  • –In traditional culture, the fewer boyfriends that a girl has before marriage, the better. Ideally, a girl should marry her first boyfriend.
  • –Having multiple girlfriends in China is never a good idea. As I wrote about earlier, acting ‘the playboy’ in China could have serious consquences on the status of your visa.  

A quiet yet powerful sexual revolution seems to have been spreading through China since the turn of the millenium. Attitudes about sex before marriage are gradually changing amongst the younger generation. I wrote about this change a few months ago in an article entitled Sex and Hypocrisy – The Edison Chen Scandal. However, engaging in sexual activity with a Chinese girl is still not a wise decision for the following reasons:

  • –If your girlfriend’s parents discover that you are involved sexually with their daughter, there may be ‘hell to pay.’ Chinese parents are often extremely protective over their ‘adult’ children and you could find yourself in serious legal and physical danger. I have heard stories about enraged parents who have taken matters into their own hands if they feel that their daughter’s honor has been somehow compromised.
  • –If the local police happen to notice that a young lady is spending an inordinate amount of time at your apartment, they may suspect that she is a hired prostitute. I have heard stories of foreigners being deported on the basis of that very suspicion.
  • –Impregnating a Chinese girl is a serious matter in China. Do not assume that because you are a foreigner that you will be able to just leave the girl and let her ‘fend for herself.’ Passports of foreigners who impregnated Chinese girls have been blocked before so don’t count on leaving the country.
  • –For most girls in China, having sex is a sign of a serious relationship that is headed towards marriage. While there are always exceptions, most Chinese girls do not want to be simply used as a ‘plaything.’ Thus, engaging in sex should never be taken lightly.

Never forget that you are a guest in China. You are an unofficial representative of your country and every action that you take will be scrutinized by someone. It is also important to remember that Chinese girls, like any other girls around the world, have feelings. In a country where boy-girl relationships are not taken lightly, being given hope by a foreigner, used for ‘pleasure’, and then abandoned, could destroy a girl’s outlook on life. You also need to understand the concept of ‘family shame’ in China. Bringing shame upon a Chinese girl will also bring shame upon her family. In some areas of China, such shame could result in the girl being treated as an outcast in her family and village or even being subjected to physical abuse.

There is nothing inherently wrong with having a girlfriend in China. Such a relationship can you help you become better acclimated to the culture and learn more about your city. It can also be a good way for you to have a positive impact on a Chinese girl’s life. However, it may be a good idea to treat this relationship more as a friendship unless you are seriously considering marrying the young lady. Just be careful and think about the consequences of your actions not only for yourself but also for the Chinese girl and her family.

151 Responses to Dating and Sex in China

  1. Terry says:

    I agree. IP is full of shit. What city does he live in? Or, more likely he must have read a 40year old book regarding mythical China.
    Promiscuity is rampant. Want sex on the first date. No condom use. liars, cheats,self-centredness and an ubundance of generally non-human behaviour.
    The west is tame compared to this trash.

    [Reply]

  2. sameer says:

    i think whether we are foreigner or chinese, we should respect girl and woman. never play with her feelings. should give her due respect. and keep ur and her promises. they are delicate and beautiful thing of the world.

    [Reply]

    titi1990 Reply:

    i like this saying, nothing is a big problem if you truely love.

    [Reply]

  3. PeterinSha says:

    I read all these comments here and let me ad something. I am living in China for 8 years, had 2 serious relationships but unfortunate both end up. My first relationship was was a tempered girl from Central China, didnt clean up and needed an AYE…strangly to say, very jealous type of chinese girl with no sense of giving space. My second relationship was with a 18 years younger girl which almost lead to marriage but at the end of the day, after paying her parents house morgage almost off she discovered that age difference is an issue and I cant make her happy….both relationships basically were very commercial orientated and money was ALWAYS the topic…love and commitment plays a secondary role. for me, I do not trust any girl in China and I became very suspicious even when dating (unfortunate cause I know there are also good girls out there which have good intentions).

    [Reply]

    Couldn't Agree More Reply:

    Most Chinese girls are after $$$. A few good actors will even give you GFE love and affection with no $trings attached but after a few months into the relationship you will suddenly be asked for financial assistance because she’s falling behind on bills etc. She will say what kind of BF are you not to support his GF? Soon it will be her family etc… In other words, if you want to date a Chinese girl, beware…. maybe cheaper to go to a massage parlor.

    [Reply]

    titi1990 Reply:

    wow, date of your reply is exactly when i got on board in the company now i currently work.. which i hate…well,back to the topic,i used to date an american,and i too put great emphasize on money and age,( he;s just 6 years older than me though)..he;d never know that even today,i still think of him a lot… but you know he;s really short tempered and he frightens me a lot of times. he made calls at 3 in the morning and seems to me,my family and my own life isn’t important at all…..i was so desperately wanting a relationship,yet i can’t just can;t do it…you have no idea what it is like in China when you are dumped by a foreigner….. the judgement goes like this, you deserved that because your vanity, your curiosity, your worship to money…and people think you are that kind of people to sell yourself to a foreigner,and what;s more important,your whole family is humiliated because of you..and bless whoever find a good foreigner husband,cause that;s a big risk…( weird though,many people are really doing this, it is just they sell themselves to Chinese,but people wouldn;t say much over it…)anyway, we always want and mean to be serious, but you have to understand,life is not easy for us..

    [Reply]

  4. Ian says:

    Mark is absolutely right. I am going back to Wuhan to teach in summer. There are some chinese women who are drop dead gorgeous and others who are less so. And, there are chinese women who find us western guys attractive, and others who find us less so. Unfortunately, we, western males, meet some stereotypical idea of beauty. So we get stared at, apparently, our big noses, white skin and blue eyes meet some ideals of beauty.
    I am married, happily, so I am not ever going to have an affair with a chinese woman, full stop. The reason for this, quite apart from love of my wife, is that chinese women, and their parents , have expectations very early on about future relationships. An invitation to dinner could be seen as weighing up a future marriage prospect. There is no concept of dating, as such. Teenagers are not allowed to have boyfriends or girlfriends until they graduate, and then they are expected to soon find a marriage partner.
    Thanks Mark

    [Reply]

    titi1990 Reply:

    with all due respect,date does exist.Our parents generation takes it really serious of their sun/daughter’s taking friends homw, but i guess if you are single and you bring a chinese Girl home your parents would also be surprised and have some suspect… but if we explain things would be much more clear….and yes, chinese parents tend to be overprotective over their offsprings,but our future generations are literally open… dating and having sex in high school is not rare anymore….i don;t know, maybe i just happen to have a great family and great parents.

    [Reply]

    titi1990 Reply:

    and one more thing to add,you really don’t know which the better,teenagers have sex and get pregnant,and then what?i bet even in America this is not a good thing.you need to know it’s so abnormal for a teenager to go out and to buy comdon,let alone for girls to get pregnant at a young age, yet teenagers are impulsive,curious and reckless.. So in someway,i think our parents are right to be protective in someway..though in the future i am going to buy them for my sun/daughter myself.

    [Reply]

  5. Nathan Hall says:

    I wondered whether the issue here is just a general ethical issue, how people ought treat each other, which is only attenuated or clouded when applied to, say, a specific cultural context, in this case cross-national insensitivity. Technicalities aside, how is this so very different to a wealthy Australian tourist behaving badly in a poor Thai island resort? My mind keeps sailing away from the specifics to just the evolutionary things, ‘difference’ and ‘animus’, tribalism, and age-old gender chestnuts. Power is power: this is a situation of exploitation of ‘weak’ by ‘strong’, which is sadly the basis upon which all the attached institutions and parties operate. Work, love, even play, is all competition, for ‘resources’ or ‘assets’ or ‘advantage’. Our target audience if they did read this would certainly come away thinking ‘stealing sex from culturally constrained/credulous Chinese women is wrong’ – they already know that, it’s the general plan LOL. Most people know that to deceive and harm another for personal gain, in this degree or category, is – wrong, or at least not especially right. This sort of sexual abuse is pretty much normative in (my) culture but perhaps doesn’t thrive so well transplanted to others. If our ‘target audience’ had the benefit of this information above, in particular just HOW badly they will hurt their victim, then I imagine that with their newfound understanding we might see that depressing statistic go down about 10% if we’re lucky. This is only where racism and sexism and opportunism intersect, most unfortunately for a certain vulnerable minority. But this current most informative debate is a step toward a solution. I’ve learned a lot. This is a really good thing, this talk – and I take this opportunity to apologise to everyone, including Knock, for my little tantrum up there which was a blot upon it. Nathan childish loss of composure, extended version LOL – peace Knock, brothers and sisters :D

    [Reply]

  6. bert says:

    Let’s see, P.C. Liberals say sex is a natural thing. Then scream if a “religious zealot” should tell them sex is not the right choice! Make up your minds!

    People use people are the time. Chinese girls are the players in China, not the men. They are not a fragile as one would think.

    But I think good advice is good advice no matter where you live. You don’t need to jump into bed with everyone you meet. The country is not important.

    [Reply]

  7. terry says:

    I work in trading company i am a foreigner and i see both sides are without scurples, as long as the girl does not get pregnant and the family shun and they play it safe i say so what….i have seen some things in china that i would perhaps have rather not, i lost a deal to competitor. How i lost this was simple the other company arranged for female company for this client, the girl was nice, my client actually a little naive of the world but a nice guy but very married and i know unhappily so, he lives in a sexless marriage but committed to his wife non the same. I did not supply a girl and would not, just not interested in getting business that way BUT it is very very common and many of the salesmen who are men object to this method and for my own part i think it sends a clear message, Chinese girls are for fun and not for serious relationship. Western woman also love to put down Chinese woman by promoting this the thinking that Chinese girls are all cheap whores, for 300 – 2000 rmb that could be argued to be true, but they say this to be self serving and i know for a fact (many western men would agree) that Chinese woman are far better wives, i know the supplier provided the girl at their own cost and my client was very happy with the girl, she obviously wanted more than a money relationship but in fairness this is all she was ever going to get, men rarely marry whores on foreign trips. Prostitution is supposed to be illegal in China but it is rife. I have heard of one story that the boss of a company told the girl to sleep with the customer and he would put a little extra in her pay packet, knowing Chinese business practices i do not doubt this. There are other cultural differences that send a message of similar thinking many of the men for Taiwan come here to have a “second wife” who they provide great apartments and comfort for so they have someone for their visits, the girls seem more than happy with this arrangement, any doubts on this and visit Xiamen Hubin Lan Lu also known as lady street where so many of these “kept women” live. In the west this is seen as morally wrong, also when marrying a Chinese woman it is customary to provide a gift of some 150,000 rmb (approx) we again see this as morally wrong, its like buying a wife which is similar to a mail order bride which in the past was less acceptable, however cultural change is not just limited to China!
    The fact is the cultural differences are so wide that any judgments made are based on your cultural background.
    The fact that China illegalise prostitution and yet it is so rife is rather amusing. If i want a whore i can have one here in about 25 minutes so how much of deterrent are the penalties.
    The mention of girls being hurt is fair some girls do not know what they are getting themselves into but this is also true of any naive girl anywhere, so whats so different about china, i have deflowered my fair share without a second thought. Naive girls only have their parents to blame and to some degree themselves. There is the other point that many of the girls in china love the foreigner and want to be with him, after all he is excitingly different in looks and thinking and generally more romantic than most Asian men, frankly speaking a lot of Chinese go with western men out of desperation due to the fact that they are exasperated
    with Chinese men who do not know how to woo a woman and treat her well whilst they are together, actually (this is for you girls) the wooing and romance goes when the wedding is over or the guy fly home.
    THERE IS FAULT AND MISCONCEPTIONS ON BOTH SIDES BUT MANY MEN ARE NOT TOLD THAT THEY CAN BE DEPORTED FOR HAVING A PROSTITUTE THIS IS THE ONE MESSAGE THAT NEEDS TO BE PUT ON A VISA MORE CLEARLY THIS WILL DISCOURAGE BAD BUSINESS PRACTICE. So this is the only message that needs to be made more clear, but i for one think this is wrong because all that will do is make the guys look harder for a girlfriend who they have no intention of keeping for long term. Many Chinese think that all westerners are rich but this is a total crock there are many many poor western people. remember there are more millionaires in china now, they are just not as romantic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I hope this gets the comments flooding in this is subject that could do with a little more chat.
    I think the following should occur.
    1. Legalize prostitution but make sure the girls keep to a strict code of safe sex and get clean and fair conditions and are not abused and get a fair cut of their labor after all they do most of the work.
    2. That all businessmen are banned from using anyone in their employ to harvest business using sex other than from a registered sex worker and the penalties for doing so are severe as this is morally outrageous and promotes poor quality product leaving china to unwitting buyers.
    3. That all men are made aware that if they take a bride in china that they will be required to buy a gift (not a dowry – money) as this shows respect and at the same time makes it clear the daughter is not being bought. i for one think this is horrid as i am broke and do not want my in laws to know this and neither does my wife but we are committed to each other and this is whats really important as two people who love each other can overcome much. This should overcome social attitude taboos.
    4. That girls (especially from the villages) are taught at home that men travelling are not men to be trusted, whether they be Chinese, Taiwanese or other foreigner.
    5. There is also a problem going to happen (happening) in china soon, many young Chinese work away from family, as social attitudes change and meld with foreign then more promiscuity will occur in the young. it is important for Chinese to work together to overcome this.
    6. It is important for China to try to safeguard its traditional values while it has to also be realized that the great wall no longer a barrier that foreign ideals and values will enter to every facet of life here and that wise men of China without prejudice should be selected to debate these subjects and come up with good solutions to the problems faced, because it is obvious to foreigner and Chinese that china has a great social structure and should try to keep it, but also i wish to add that girls should also be more valued not treated as something that was not wanted and the boy born second or third was the one that is wanted and the girl is just a bloody inconvenience this is abhorrent in my view.
    7. China is a great country i for one would like to see it kept that way and not sink to the depths of depravity that exist in so many western countries, just look at the riots in UK, the crazy gun laws in USA, just to mention a few.

    [Reply]

    Nathan Hall Reply:

    1. This is like asking China to regulate their coal industry, but a lot further down the list.
    2. Definitely: that’s a law that should be made – but could never be enforced
    3. Those men who are actually getting married will find this out. We are not concerned with those men at all.
    4. That is a very depressing and silly thing to teach. You advocate that xenophobia should become social and educational policy. The correct thing to teach is sound judgment, not racism.
    5. ‘Promiscuity’ is not necessarily a ‘problem’. Having sex, not married or with more than one person, is not necessarily wrong, either for men or women. Whilst mindful of ‘globalisation’ and shifting cultural norms, we ought not lose sight of the sexual revolution which happened only about fifty years ago. We must think a bit more broadly and openly than this. Regarding ‘tradition’ we should credit China with the intelligence and the means to move forward without leaving itself behind, or at least appear to.
    6. Wise men are generally not permitted to speak their mind in China. China is basically a benign dictatorship. It is largely lawless, not least as there is no real separation between state and judiciary, the former simply acting through the latter. China is not a ‘democracy’, it just likes to go to market these days. So if you want Chinese wise men, you have to go to TED.com, not China. I am sure you did not mean the Chinese government when you talked about wise men. I am sure you did not mean the ‘Great Leaders’.
    7. Depravity is everywhere. Stop making it a cultural thing. You talk about this ‘depravity’ in the same essay in which you talk cavalierly of having personally ‘deflowered’ ‘many a’ young female human being ‘without a second thought’. Apparently, your behaviour was ethically sound because she lacked crucial intelligence about you and your motives. She ‘should have known better’ is not, in my view, a viable defence to an accusation of sexual or psychological abuse. You I really have to question, proud of your personal depravity and then ending up railing against others’. A+ for effort, D+ for achievement. Major points lost for the misogyny and contradiction.

    [Reply]

  8. Sean says:

    Minus the sanctimonious stuff on this website regarding dating and other personal related information, the website is interesting. But on the passport part which states,

    “Impregnating a Chinese girl is a serious matter in China. Do not assume that because you are a foreigner that you will be able to just leave the girl and let her ‘fend for herself.’ Passports of foreigners who impregnated Chinese girls have been blocked before so don’t count on leaving the country.”

    This is just misinformation at best. The CCP would never take someone’s passport for such a thing. Just in case a local government goes rouge, for whatever reason, you would only need to call your consulate, give it a day and the local government will hand it back no problem. The passport is the property of your government, not yours, so when the consulate gets involved and asks the CCP for their property back, the CCP will do it without question. Well that is of course unless you killed someone, or some other major crime.

    I could also go on in length about the CCP canceling you visa because you date to much, technically it is possible, but highly unlikely.

    [Reply]

    Robert Vance Reply:

    Please reread what I wrote. I didn’t say that passports have been seized. I said that they have been blocked. In other words, you might not be allowed to leave the country. There is a difference…

    [Reply]

    Sean Reply:

    Well, the only way the CCP could prevent you from leaving is by taking your passport or putting you in jail. Either way unless it is an actual crime ( getting a woman pregnant is not) the same remedy applies, in other words call your embassy and you will be on your way soon enough.

    [Reply]

    Prof B Reply:

    Sean,
    You are naive. Under US Law if you are a US citizen convicted in ANY COUNTRY of sexual abuse or prostitution there are severe restrictions by the US government on you traveling abroad. China only needs to deport you for either of those acts and both China and the US will see to it that you don’t go back by making it virtually impossible to exit the US or get a Visa to China. Even conviction for spousal abuse in the US goes on your passport records as do any records that classify you as a sexual predator.

    [Reply]

  9. DL says:

    First of all, it’s important for me to mention off the bat that I actually like your blog.
    However, your article seems slightly too narrow to be truly illuminating to those who’ve not been to China before. I have a feeling, based on your responses to other criticism you’ve drawn from this blog, that I know you’re going to say that it’s based on experience and observation but I should remind you that you are just one man and China is a very big place.
    Another issue I have is with the title which is “Dating and Sex in China”, when it would, perhaps, be more apt to call it “Warnings about Dating and Sex in China for the Western Male” but I suppose it isn’t as punchy, after all. Indeed, your article only addresses foreign males looking to work in China, forgetting non-western foreigners male and female working in China, Chinese men & woman, and western females. What about Chinese men/women who use foreign women/men to emigrate from China? Happens a lot, but here you seem content in catering to the “foreigner=morally repugnant” crowd.
    I also take issue that some vaguely defined “bad experience” in love will shatter the view towards foreigners in general in the eyes of considerate and feeling people (in this case, Chinese people) or as you melodramatically claim “ruin” those same people’s lives forever. After a bad experience thinking and feeling people, though wiser for the experience, tend to pick themselves up and dust themselves off. Also, it is useless to try and claim that the same vaguely defined “bad experiences” don’t exist within Chinese on Chinese relationships too.

    Also, don’t lose yourself any sleep over foreigners ever forgetting that they are guests here and very much “foreigners”, foreigners who are also constantly reminded by helpful folks that things occurring here are far beyond their cognitive capabilities. I, for one, am reminded of the fact of my foreignness almost too much to truly feel like the “guest” I’m so often told I am. Indeed, at times, seemingly in the most enlightened of company and in the most bizarre conversational contexts I am reminded. Often times it is as though the person with whom I was speaking was simply waiting for their opportunity to remind me of my foreignness, regardless of what was being discussed. I personally can’t recall ever having referred to a person from another country as a “foreigner” when encountering one in my homeland, nor of feeling the need to remind them that they were “only a guest” there. Or yet again of laughing at them in nervousness of contact or in ridicule at their behavior (unless, of course, their behavior was criminally antic, as in the case of the exchange student from Japan who ransacked his roommate’s/my good friend’s bedroom back in University. But then again, I never, even then thought “those crazy foreigners” I just thought “what an asshole!” that guy was). The same cannot be said of certain Chinese people abroad (by no means all) who continue to refer to natives of the country they are visiting as “waiguoren”.

    Warning Off topic:
    And Vance, please don’t say “What’s hard about teaching English in China?” as you have in replies to others in previous posts because A) it is becoming increasingly “hard” here (especially in the nicer spots/cities, regarding hours, conditions, treatment, etc.) B) it doesn’t reflect well on your integrity as a teacher, in other words: if you care, it is very much WORK and C) which is strongly related to A) there seem to be far too many teachers in China who are self-loathing defeatists or, worse, mealy-mouthed “yes men” who feel it is racism or cultural insensitivity to stand up for themselves and value their contribution (a very real and valuable one) and as such allow the private language industry and public institutes to trample them. It’s bad for the professionals.

    [Reply]

    terry Reply:

    interesting post, i never think of Chinese as racist i think of them as isolated but yes you are right they are the perfect racist in as far as they always remind you of the fact that you are a foreigner and when the live on the outside they want to live in China Town a self imposed Apartied. Frankly i think they are great, kind and caring to whom they know, faithful wives and great mums. I think any guy married to a Chinese woman is one lucky fella and many of the married guys i meet who travel to China say they envy me. I think that the racism is a cultural problem and not a slight towards problems, they have been more isolated and their thinking has been engineered through certain teachings at home and school. Chinese are not bad people, whereas racism in the west is based on hate of difference, Chinese racism is based on the observational differences of people and the need to keep to your own as its what you know best and anything different is not to be trusted as it did not relate to the teachings at home and school. I would ask Chinese who read this to see this difference and make one change to continue to enjoy the differences, i know that many of the comments you make to westerners are for their own good and are well meaning but over do it and it can be interpreted another way.
    I would like to add some interesting comments for Chinese to broaden their outlook on life as this is the underlying problem
    for instance you all seem to eat such an unvaried diet from day to day, this in its self is one of those small things that keeps you isolated in “your safe zone” but the world is to be explored and new experiences to be savored not scared of. i suggest you all get more into Italian food first (not pizza perhaps) but noodle based Italian and expand from their, then you will realize the world has more to offer and not to be isolated as foreign but to be incorporated into a great nation like China after all most good things in China came from somewhere else originally and that is no less true today than yesterday. Also you should make all your movies subtitled in English not to do so is crazy it isolates china culture from the world, we want to enjoy this to. We have so much to offer and so do you. I LOVE HON GOO SOUP ohhh so much, if i had missed that i would have missed a great thing, but you should try sticky date pudding oh my god that is to die for. okay food is one thing but my point is expand your experiences and do not isolate us or yourselves, we can both benefit, just be wise enough to recognize the bad things, in our case that is too much sugar and salt in your case to much rice and repetitiveness. WOW i took a long time to get to the point he he.

    [Reply]

    Chris Reply:

    @DL

    I agree that work here is getting tougher and good schools expect ever improving standards. I do believe that Teachers should stand up for themselves though…

    I recently caused an uproar when my school kept me working after my contract finished. I was still within my residency permit time.

    However, the school started to play me with, “we are giving you the opportunity to prove yourself for another contract” and crap like this. I told my students in a big social club class exactly what was happening and asked them if I should stay and whether it was fair. I then got my supervisor to enter the class (to her surprise) to ask the students directly.

    This obviously pissed off the school an awful lot, but then I warned them that I’m going to the PSB to inform them about the lack of contract so that any attempt to blackmark me would fail.

    After a calm discussion, where I nicely countered all their arguments with the fact of the matter from my point of view, they actually offered me a new contract and asked me not to involve the students again. They tried to make me feel naughty, but I told them not to bother unless I behaved in such a way under contract – which I would never do.

    I told them that out of contract I’m the boss of me and that’s that. I told them that they are not lawyers nor are they the PSB so whatever they say has no meaning. They’re just not used to workers standing up for themselves and this can be advantageous to foreigners. If a school is good and everything is fine, then there is nothing you should nor could do. But if ANYTHING isn’t EXACTLY as it SHOULD BE. Then GO FOR IT!

    Just remember, when in the office negotiating, to be gentle, peaceful and calm – yet as solid as a rock in your view of them being required to correct your affairs.

    Anyway, it solved the problem and showed them not to play games with me. They do respect me and they DID want me to stay. We’re all friends again – only now they’re not going to fuck with me and will play a straight game.

    Don’t be afraid to “show your balls” if the school isn’t 100 percent correct. Otherwise you’re in trouble if for any reason the PSB comes sniffing around.

    Sometimes you just have to throw a hard six and take a gamble. Otherwise they’ll treat you like a college girl and not as a 36 year old man!

    [Reply]

    DL Reply:

    Hi Chris,

    Thanks for the reply. Your experiences are common, unfortunately. What is uncommon is that you stuck up for yourself and now you are all “BFF” as you say, good for you! I mean this situation, it happens, but -I swear it- some schools are so jaded (in their limited view of things) with foreign staff that they are rotten through and through. This usually comes from empty promises on the schools part on the outset and the teacher not performing to order (order being that of a trained chimp most of the time).

    Also, it seems, from your use of the word ‘though’ in the second sentence of your reply, that I perhaps was not as clear about showing support for teachers sticking up for myself as you have done; in fact that was completely what I meant to say. IE don’t be a mealy-mouthed ‘yes man’, stick up for yourself and set some sort of precedent. I feel this is the only way to improve things.

    A warning to teachers: Ask questions, be cognizant of what the school is doing and why and don’t let them hold all the cards.

    Although I like teaching, I don’t believe things will improve here or that teachers will make a concerted effort to improve our lot, too disconnected, much like the Chinese populace. Not that private Ss don’t help a teacher “bring home the bacon” but I just don’t like living here enough to put up with some of the headaches and so I’m getting out. However, the market for English tuition, etc. in China is seemingly a bottomless-pit and as such very difficult for the skilled, itinerant English instructor. That said, I’ll be exploring web-based options for utilizing my expertise from the relative comfort of my home (where ever that turns out to be) with Ss in China.

    [Reply]

    DL Reply:

    ‘myself’ in paragraph 2 should obviously read ‘themselves’.

  10. andi says:

    I married a Chinese lady but before doing so had a relative short courting period. 2 weeks in China, 6 months in my country and a further 2 months in China where we lived together. We have been married now for 12 years and have had a great marriage despite many difficulties with language. To me mixed marriages are the heaven you want but on the other hand Chinese women are very conservative on the cot. Great lovers but lousy at fore play and this is going to take a long time to turn about. Trust me I have several mates who all complain about the same thing.

    [Reply]

  11. Mr. Potato says:

    This post is rather old, but the biased, one-sided opinions it express still prevail today. Many people take up the defensive toward one side or another without even noticing that that is what they are doing. I think this is the most dangerous kind of bias and serves to fuel emotional outbursts and further ignorance.

    This article seems to imply that it is coming to the defense of Asian women, as if they are all innocent and blameless. Are they nothing more than sheep to be safeguarded by their shepherds or are they human beings with at least an equal potential to do harm and evil as the so-called “wolves”? Do the women involved not carry some responsibility for their own lives and actions? I don’t believe they are powerless to defend themselves. I don’t believe that they don’t break as many hearts as they make either.

    Honestly, the real reason that a lot of these girls have relations with these foreign men is because the men are charmingly exotic. Many of them have had experience with much “tougher” women and are therefore able to easily overcome some of the psychological barriers many Asian women put up. Foreign men have learned to be outgoing and persistent and this, in turn, produces results. Foreign men are also more likely to be practiced in social situations and more direct in negotiations.

    Rarely is the real world so cut and dry; so black and white. This article sounds like it was written by someone with a very narrow outlook, since he didn’t even TRY to look at the situations from different perspectives. What he says may be true from one standpoint, but I find it hard to respect someone who can’t present a more well-rounded viewpoint that is more realistic. Sorry, but I just prefer to be better educated and experienced rather than simply brainwashed and conditioned to believe somebody’s opinion. Look at the facts, be more aware and less emotional.

    [Reply]

  12. John says:

    This is the most one-sided and sheltered article on Chinese relationships I have ever read. It’s almost completely delusional.

    Most of my friends refer to Chinese women as “having the mind of a child with the ethics of a pirhana.” If you thought Western women’s idea of stripping involves removing the flesh from an innocent man, you are in for the how-to manual here. They are greedy, manipulative, immature, and totally insensitive by all of my accounts.

    If you’re sleeping around in a small town wreaking havoc, then you’re an idiot. You should expect the girls to be quite traditional. However, that also means that the vast majority of them wouldn’t be caught dead with you, the white devil. If I couldn’t get out to Beijing at least once a month, I would go home half-insane. I cannot walk down the street in this city, which is two hours away from BJ, without jeers of “hello!” and “laowai!” (a racist term) by every hillbilly in sight. One of my fellow teachers here (we’re certified high school subject-based teachers, not esl) has a wife and child who simply refuse to go outside on the basis of this.

    ESL teaching is not difficult. Navigating Chinese society, on the other hand, is hell. It’s not like we just come here and teach English. You have to live in between, unfortunately, and when you can’t read, speak or listen, that becomes almost impossible. You downplay this massive detail as a total non-issue.

    Nobody needs this man-hating, liberal, guilt-stricken tirade. Readers, disregard, PLEASE.

    Also, I’ve never heard of someone getting kicked out for promiscuity. This could have been a rape for instance, and it would have been published somewhere, don’t you think? You’re going on rumor…

    [Reply]

  13. In Prefecture says:

    To garylong:

    I’ve been here three years and in Asia for four years.

    The stereotype people in Asia have about foreign teachers is one of ignorance and bigotry. . .it revolves around fear of differences. Their preconceived notion is the foreign teacher is just here for their white face and speaking ability. Which is what schools hire and expect.

    Then there are people like me. Dual BA, two Master’s Degrees, dual high school educator certification in history and English, Principal’s certification. A real educator. Schools do not know how to handle that, so they micromanage the educator.

    As for your last point: Chinese students are only interested in their face and the foreign teacher’s class isn’t on the Gaokao so they do not take it seriously. I teach University now and the damage against foreign teachers is now too well ingrained for it to change. Most hide behind “my English is poor” while little attempt to make their spoken English better, because failing is worse than never attempting, they do not want the scrutiny of their classmates and just want to blend into the ant colony so they truly have no desire to do anything.

    But that does not matter, because it will be the school that will promote them due to social promotion, so schools here are waste of time. A student can go through three years of Gao Zhong and there years of University/College, do nothing and still pass.

    Finally, for the headline. . .Dating here is full of ten thousand hypocrisies. It basically comes down to “If a Chinese man does something wrong in a woman’s eyes, she will ignore it. If a foreigner does the same thing, it’s the end of the world and she will harp on it until the end of time.” Also, never trust her parents either. . .as parents are narrow minded, uneducated, bigoted and will only accept a man they choose for her. Remember, when the woman leaves after marriage, they lose their slave, so they will sabotage their daughter’s relationship in order to keep the slave close, demand money and gifts in order to buy them off and then criticize everything. If you can find a girl strong enough to resist her parents, after marriage, you shut the Chinese in-laws out! It’s easy. . .once you are married, they are out of the picture. At that point, gentleman, you’re in control.

    [Reply]

  14. George says:

    What scares me is that someone like cj is teaching English. cj’s English level seems to be about 3rd grade. Maybe cj is teaching English to 2nd graders?

    [Reply]

    garylong Reply:

    The heading or subject is “Dating and Sex in China”
    not “Teacher Bashing” how many blogs I go to and see people out there with less than perfect English them self, sling shit at others about how bad their English is, I bet in a academic contest most of the teachers out there, with less than perfect English is the teacher that is the most loved in china, for their work and time, but stuck up born with a silver spoon in their mouth are the teachers that cannot stay in one school more than 6 months, as they are too restricted to do their work. lets face it Chinese students only want to get good marks in class, they are not in class to learn just in class to get a grade. so stop teacher bashing for God sake.

    [Reply]

    In Prefecture Reply:

    The stereotype people in Asia have about foreign teachers is one of ignorance and bigotry. . .it revolves around fear of differences. Their preconceived notion is the foreign teacher is just here for their white face and speaking ability. Which is what schools hire and expect.

    Then there are people like me. Dual BA, two Master’s Degrees, dual high school educator certification in history and English, Principal’s certification. A real educator. Schools do not know how to handle that, so they micromanage the educator.

    As for your last point: Chinese students are only interested in their face and the foreign teacher’s class isn’t on the Gaokao so they do not take it seriously. I teach University now and the damage against foreign teachers is now too well ingrained for it to change. Most hide behind “my English is poor” while little attempt to make their spoken English better, because failing is worse than never attempting, they do not want the scrutiny of their classmates and just want to blend into the ant colony so they truly have no desire to do anything.

    But that does not matter, because it will be the school that will promote them due to social promotion, so schools here are waste of time. A student can go through three years of Gao Zhong and there years of University/College, do nothing and still pass.

    Finally, for the headline. . .Dating here is full of ten thousand hypocrisies. It basically comes down to “If a Chinese man does something wrong in a woman’s eyes, she will ignore it. If a foreigner does the same thing, it’s the end of the world and she will harp on it until the end of time.” Also, never trust her parents either. . .as parents are narrow minded, uneducated, bigoted and will only accept a man they choose for her. Remember, when the woman leaves after marriage, they lose their slave, so they will sabotage their daughter’s relationship in order to keep the slave close, demand money and gifts in order to buy them off and then criticize everything. If you can find a girl strong enough to resist her parents, after marriage, you shut the Chinese in-laws out! It’s easy. . .once you are married, they are out of the picture. At that point, gentleman, you’re in control.

    [Reply]

  15. hossein says:

    May 27, 2008 at 3:06 am
    A thoughtful post, but there are two sides to this coin. There is nothing to say in defense of laowai who take advantage of hapless Chinese girls. But there are just as many Chinese girls who take advantage of clueless laowai, whether for a visa or a green card.

    But the problem is not just utilitarian—it is cultural. Why is there a strain of promiscuity in foreign males (I say male because most of these reports are of males) who come to China? Why do some Chinese women hold such high expectations toward relationships while others are in it for sex or money? These are other subjects for other posts, of course.

    I hope reasonable people who are contemplating an international relationship will heed the advice in this post. But I fear that the people who need to read this most are combing their hair, lacing their shoes, and getting ready to go out to find someone to take home

    [Reply]

    Mr. Potato Reply:

    “But the problem is not just utilitarian — it is cultural. Why is there a strain of promiscuity in foreign males (I say male because most of these reports are of males) who come to China?”
    — You’re right. It’s cultural. In the West, the college years mark a time for experimentation with newfound freedoms. In other words, it has become a traditional time for promiscuous sex and partying. The same could be said for some vacationers. People venture out into the world far from home, not so they can live the same boring lives they had, but to gain new experiences and perhaps even cross metaphorical boundaries.

    Nowadays, people tend to be rather promiscuous even in their Western hometowns. It’s no suprise that they should be even more so when abroad. Part of the joy that comes from traveling comes from the sense of freedom and exploration. It’s no wonder that people tend to be less inhibited when they are far from their Western homes. I guess you could say that some people get a little carried away in this excitement.

    It’s not just Asia that causes this phenomena. People go wild when they go to other places too. Vacationers will engage in promiscuous behavior in places like Paris, Madrid, Amsterdam, New Orleans or Las Vegas. Some see it as a way to relieve stress. The only difference is that such behavior is more likely to be misunderstood when it occurs in more conservative cultures like those found in Asia. People in these cultures tend to watch foreigners with a critical eye and judge behavior based on their own standards. Natives who view the foreigners may develop a lot of stereotypical views and opinions which may not be completely accurate or fair assumptions. For one thing, they may have a tendency to see all foreigners as belonging to a single group or type of people, which, of course, they are not.

    On the other hand, Western women, while generally more open with their sexuality than those of other cultures, are likely still more cautious with their behavior no matter where they may be. Many of them are concerned for their own safety while traveling abroad, so they are less likely to engage in wild and reckless activities; though they might be more inclined to do so were they in a more comfortable environment.

    [Reply]

    Nathan Hall Reply:

    Hmm. A thoughtful and well-crafted set of observations, which properly broaden the scope of the debate. Bravo.

    [Reply]

  16. garylong says:

    there is 2 ways to look at every thing in life, I have been in china 6 years and some times just step back and hear what people have to say before I speak to people and hear the story’s they have. I have found more and more Chinese girls are getting to be like the foreigners you spoke of, I have at some times got to know a girl over many months in the hope of marriage and even told the girl I have met that I will not have sex with her if she don’t want to marry me. and if she want to marry I need to meet her family and friends as this is a part of going to the step of marriage as you have said. but I have done all this know a girl for months met every family members and not have sex and when the girl agree to marry and the family know this, we have had sex. but that did not stop the girl from being out with other boys to have sex with or saying to me after having sex many times and getting ready to marry that she don’t want to be with me any more and make so many excuses. so I say don’t just look at us foreigners as say we are bad in the end I believe its the foreigners that are just doing what the Chinese do as they say (When in Roma do as the Romeos do)
    I know for a fact that when Chinese read this they will be angry and that’s why I am making a web page for all your Chinese out that that have been cheating us foreigners. there is not many good Chinese left in china. don’t point the finger at us foreigners as you have 3 fingers pointing back at you.

    [Reply]

  17. Was dating a chinese girl says:

    I was dating a chinese girl from Shangyang, she was a major narcissist. She made me nuts and I wanted to die. Be very careful the little doll you think they are might be a dragon lady trying to destroy your mind and life. Be very careful please , I am sure there are some nice Chinese women , maybe avoid divorced ones they probably are divorced for a reason.

    [Reply]

  18. Kali says:

    I want to marry village girl near Chengdu Do the parents of girl agree if I offer them money.

    [Reply]

    In Prefecture Reply:

    yes. . .these people worship money.

    [Reply]

  19. In Prefecture says:

    After two years of being here, I can tell you that the wall to crack for a relationship is almost impossible. I met my Chinese girlfriend through my boss and it took so much for her just to begin to accept me as a person, let alone a foreigner.

    Let’s examine this article. If you are looking for what this article said the foreigners did and got deported for (more on that in a second), then just remember that, if you live in a larger city, Craig’s list can give that to you. You might even spend the same amount of money, but not the time. If you live in a smaller city (like me), KTVs are the way to go. Don’t bother with the possible crap of being shat upon due to a family believing their lying daughter over you (you are a foreigner and Chinese girls never lie, even though I caught one in six lies in less than five minutes).

    As for a GF, here is the reality and the foreigner stereotypes:
    1: Foreigners have diseases. Roll your eyes and accept it. Their parents raised these girls to be brainwashed with that lie.

    2: Foreigners are too big so a Chinese girl’s body cannot handle it. Trust me, away from everyone, that she-wolf comes out. The first kiss is the hardest one. After that, they come non-stop until you are out of breath.

    3: Foreigners all leave. There was was only one way I could overcome this. I bought my apartment and convinced my retired parents to join me in China. Since then, I haven’t been able to beat them back with the stick.

    4: Foreigners act funny and will embarrass me: This is their “face” issue. Please remember that what is most important is not what a Chinese person thinks of themselves, but what the rest of the world thinks of them.

    5: Foreigners only want sex. I have given lessons to Chinese girls about men and they are dumbfounded to believe that ALL men want sex, not just foreigners.

    Chinese women, by in large, do not value their virginity. Their issue is fear. . .their parents, teachers, community and families have so stunted their emotional growth that most women in China in their 20s still think like 12 year old girls. They laugh at fart joke, giggle about men and act like girls with their first crushes. That force field is strong, grasshopper. Learn some Chinese and it begins to break down. Go into your second year and that forcefield breaks down even more. Setup roots (buy an apartment, import family or buy property that is hard to move at the drop of a hat ), and that forcefield all but lifts.

    As for the story at the top. . .China is filled with stories like that. One Chinese teacher told me of a Chinese teacher in Heilongjiang who was in prison because a student committed suicide after the teacher admonished the student and the parents, school and LEO’s held the teacher responsible. Present something more than “A Chinese friend said one time that. . .” and I would likely believe it.

    I was with many Korean women in Korea and many Chinese women in China. I truly have enjoyed my life here. Do not let stories like this scare you. Small towns this may happen (and I mean 5% of the time), but anything larger than 3 million people (or Haikou) and this story would never happen.

    Enjoy China. Teach, play, relax, make friends, go out to bars and listen to crap house music. . .then remember that Chinese women are people too and not to abuse them. They abuse themselves enough emotionally everyday. My GF, who has my engagement ring now, is the happiest woman on Earth right now. But I also know I have to bring her from childhood to adulthood and it’s slow.

    And there is the biggest issue for the foreigner. Chinese women, in a relationship, move at the speed of a UN debate. It will take months for them to decide upon you, and then it goes baby steps (hold hand, hug, kiss cheek, kiss lips, 3rd base, HOME RUN [usually after marriage]), but they will drop you quickly if you make one mistake. So, be patient and remind yourselves, lao wai nan ren. . .as perfect as one Chinese girl seems, there are 1.6 billion people here. . .another one will come along.

    [Reply]

    In Transition Reply:

    IP, You are freakin’ hilarious!

    What city do you live in?

    [Reply]

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>